Ban social media for kids and give them 'dumbphones' says counter terror expert

Giving kids "dumbphones" and banning them from social media is the only way to steer them away from extreme violence online, a counter-terror expert has said.

Jonathan Hall urged ministers to "be bold" and bring in an Australian-style ban. He warned that age verification and new laws around algorithms will not be enough to stop teenagers like Southport killer Axel Rudakubana.

He said in one recent case a teenager "wanted to copy" Rudakubana after being inspired online. Mr Hall, the UK’s Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and State Threat Legislation, told LBC children "have got to stop using social media". He said the Online Safety Act will achieve "precious little" because of the magnitude of threats kids face online.

He said: "They've got to deal with child sex abuse, suicide videos, self-harm. By the time they get to just straightforward gory violence and terrorism material or knives, it's going to be some way down the line.

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"So I think you have to be realistic about this. I mean, if you want my honest answer, and I've looked at this topic for a long time now, I think that children have got to stop using social media, full stop."

He pointed to Australia's decision to outlaw social media use for under 16s. This will come into force in December. He also suggested that children should have "dumbphones" - the opposite of smartphones, which are used for calls and texting and little else.

Mr Hall said: "I think we need to go down the line that Australia has pioneered. I mean, in my dreams, we would just have kids with dumb phones and a few apps, and that would be distributed on the NHS. And if the government was really bold, they would grasp this bull by the horns. But I'm afraid the Online Safety Act is not going to be the solution."

Warning of the dangers of online violence, he said: "I mean, there was some boy arrested recently he wanted to copy the Southport killer. I mean, unbelievable. They get all this from the internet."

He said counter-terror officers are increasingly focused on " violence fixated individuals" like Rudakubana. The killer was 17 when he murdered three girls and seriously injured a further 10 people including eight children in a senseless attack in Southport.

He had been referred to the Prevent programme three times in the years before the killings. As a schoolboy he showed an alarming fascination with the Manchester Arena bombing, the IRA, mass shootings and the 2017 London Bridge attack.

But a string of errors led to his case being discontinued. Describing those at risk of becoming dangeorusly fixated with violence, Mr Hall said: "I think it's lonely and lost children.

"I mean, look at the Southport killer, for example. Look at Nicholas Prosper (who killed his mother and two siblings and planned to murder around 30 at his former school in Luton).

"Do you remember he's the boy who kills three family members and was also planning a school massacre, I should say but were fortunately stopped from doing it.."

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